Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Aug 20, 2025 10:35 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:23 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:04 pm
Posts: 146
First name: Steven
Last Name: Bollman
City: Emeryville
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 94608
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have just put my first sealer coats on my first build. My loft is averaging about 45% humidity and 65ºF. I have a 1lb cut of shellac in 190º grain alcohol. Is there a safe range of number coats per day that folks with experience can recommend? Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:57 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 1041
First name: Gil
Last Name: Draper
City: Knoxville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
You will probably get several varying answers to your question. It depends on how thick you applied the coats and your technique. Typically French polish is done in sessions, where after you lay down the sealer coats, you do 3 or 4 bodying sessions then spirit off. After each session I have heard waiting an hour or so before starting the next session. But it probably doesn't matter how many sessions you do in a day as long as you build up thin. You want to use very little shellac when bodying, like almost nothing. Just keep working it until you get wore out then take a break, then when your arm falls off quit for the day. I would suggest sticking exactly to whatever method you are using. I recommend the O'BRien French polishing DVD. Very thorough.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:15 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 2712
First name: ernest
Last Name: kleinman
City: lee's summit
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 64081
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
A lot depends on what the conditions are in the room your working in My bsmt is now abt 25% humidity and 58 deg not vy ideal.I/m FP a piece of scrap WRC till it looks right . Warmer temps.= more sessions. I do mine daily.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:39 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:06 am
Posts: 508
First name: Greg
Last Name: B
City: Los Angeles
State: California
Yeah, if you're FP'ing there aren't really coats per se, though most people put it on in 'sessions'. 3 or 4 a day is probably a good rule of thumb, though I would suggest one a day if it's your first time. It's safer and will make things easier.

It is actually possible to put it all on in a day. You won't be able to do that without experience though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:14 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:18 am
Posts: 265
Location: United States
First name: Frank
Last Name: Ford
City: Palo Alto
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 94301
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
If you put on a thick finish by French polishing, you can do it all in a day, but then you have a LONG drying time ahead of you. I've done that sometimes when I knew I'd have to leave the job aside for a month or more. Just like lacquer, shellac is an evaporative finish, and if it's thick it takes longer. High humidity and super thick French polishing might promote blushing or cloudiness. Living where I do, I wouldn't know about that.

Some finishers do French polishing with only shellac and NO oil of any kind, and wipe a single pass per day, to avoid the pad or rag sticking. Those folks may take six weeks or more to get the finish all on. That may seem like a long time, but it's only five minutes or less a day for the entire instrument.

Like guitar playing, French polishing is all about technique, not materials, and with experience, all kinds of techniques can work well.

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET



These users thanked the author Frank Ford for the post: TimAllen (Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:38 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:57 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:51 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Albany NY
First name: David
Last Name: LaPlante
Status: Professional
I do one "session" per day. This consists of scuff sanding the prevous session with 320, 400 or 600 3M Gold, dry depending on where I'm at in the overall schedule.
Then a series of "pulls" with the pad, the shellac being appropriately thinned and loaded into the pad again depending on where I'm at in the overall process. I don't use any oil and can usually get 10-15 sets of "pulls" in any one session by controlling the visosity of the shellac, the amount of material in the pad and how much pressure I put on the the pad as I move it across the surface.
One day between "sessions" is usually sufficient drying time.
I do the different parts of the guitar in this sequence:
-Back, Sides and neck heel- 4-6 sessions (maple vs rosewood)
-Top and peghead- 3-4 sessions
-Neck shaft 2-3 sessions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:02 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: UK
David. That's fast French Polishing (if we can call it that). The technique that you describe (straight lines?) is the method that I use but that's after doing 10 or so brushed coats of very thin Shellac. Do you pad glaze after or do you go through grits and the polishing compound?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:25 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 195
I put it on thick and frequently on one guitar, to get it off the bench (as I was moving), and it crazed, surface looked like a dried up mud puddle (at a microscopic level). My better french polishes were put on thinner, spaced a day or two apart per session.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:31 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:51 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Albany NY
First name: David
Last Name: LaPlante
Status: Professional
Michael,
By the end of the process I pad glaze (with extremely thinned shellac and a very "dry" pad) over the surface which has been sanded (at that point) out to a final 800 grit. It takes several series of passess to completely develop the final surface which is only foam wheel buffed or hand rubbed from that point.
My initial coat is a "spit" coat, but the bodying is done as I've described with a heavier cut than used at the middle and especially the end of the process.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:23 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 2712
First name: ernest
Last Name: kleinman
City: lee's summit
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 64081
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I prefer to flatten halfway through my building up the layers either with 1500 or pumice , depending on how the surface appears. It/s different for everyone.It/s basically a judgment call you might use 600 or 400 grit . Techniques , climate, temp , shellac product/thinner vary widely and from person to person.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:27 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: UK
Yes it's pretty similar to my method. I rub out at 800G and then do a series of straight lines with very thin Shellac - maybe 5 or 6 very quick sessions of this over a couple of days. Just enough to be rid of the scratches left by the 800G. I don't buff or use any compounds. I'm left with a series of very fine lines left by the cloth, enough to scatter the light. I guess it's like a matte/semi gloss. If I want full gloss I'll rub out with 1200G , do a few straight line sessions and then glaze with a near dry pad.
JasonM. I rather like the look of those microscopic mud cracks!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com